West Indian Archie

Watching Mindhunter on Netflix, the story about how behavioral profiling became a “thing” at the FBI.  Cop shows are generally good because they often show interrogation. If you know what to look for – you can see how coercive everything is, and learn to eliminate that sort of thing from your game.   And there was actually some game dropped, which we’ll get to later.

But in the current climate, I gotta get this off my chest first.

Probably the scariest dude on the show is this guy.  Ed Kemper.

“Women are born with this little hole between their legs which every man on earth just wants to stick something into, and they’re weaker than men so they learn strategies,”

“They deploy their minds, and their sex, and they intuitively learn to humiliate.”

“If a woman humiliates her little boy, he will become hostile and violent and debased, period.”

CHILLING.  Obviously the show is not going to be kind to women given the subject, but there is a whole lot of unvarnished crazy. A lot of the dialogue from the killers was taken verbatim from interviews and legal proceedings.

DOUBLE CHILLING is that I’ve seen this sort of anti-female sentiment in comment sections and blogs.  You log on to your favorite dating tips site, and some erudite guy says something that starts out plausible

“Women are different than us”

Sure, no problems with that. Them being different is half of the fun!

But then the author goes wildly left and connecting dots that turn women into some sort of eternal enemy.

NO BUENO.

https://youtu.be/u8lETeSxiAY

So on to nicer topics,

In episode 2, the main character, Holden and his girlfriend, Debbie – they’re in a diner getting dinner.  Holden has just come back from his first interview with Kemper.

Debbie – You’ve got mention-itis. [one itis!]
You cannot stop mentioning him.

Holden – Think of how much we can learn from a guy like Kemper.

Holden – He called it a vocation.
Debbie – Killing women?

Holden – Yeah.
Debbie – Jesus.

Debbie – How do you wrap your mind around that?

Holden – Couldn’t attract them. Didn’t have the social skills.

Debbie – That would describe a lot of guys.

Holden – Why does he hate women? I should ask.
Debbie – But not outright.

Holden –  No?

Debbie – He sounds like the kind of person who would tell you what you wanna hear.

Debbie –  You have to disarm him first.
Holden – You mean, like – What?

Debbie – Ask him questions about himself.
Debbie – Lean into him, listen intently.
Holden – I do that.

Debbie – Keep your arms uncrossed.
Debbie – Mirror his movements.
Debbie – Encourage him to talk about the things he’s excited about.

Holden – Are these feminine wiles?

Debbie – Cross your legs in his direction.
Holden – Do you really do that?

Debbie – But don’t touch him.

Debbie – You want him to like you, but you don’t want him to think you’re gonna fuck him.
Debbie – [LAUGHING] Look at your face.

Now this is great game, but it’s great GIRL game.

Ask yourself this question, have you done this with a girl before?  Take an interest in her and encourage her to talk?

What happens?

She puts you in the friend zone before you can get a bid in.

Why?

This is comfort game. This rapport game.

If you lead with this, she’s just gonna be comfortable talking about stuff with you – she gets her intimacy – but she doesn’t given up anything.

All in all this is a decent series just for the game/relationship aspects.

-Archie

 

You could critique this movie from lots of angles.  I’m sure this and Twin Peaks will be the Reddit fodder for years to come. Lighting, costume design, practical effects, low cgi, cinematography were all top notch.  The themes, logic, scientific, technological and political implications are just being uncovered in the blogs and youtube reviews.

I want to talk about Joi though.  This is a blog about game not science fiction.

Spoilers Ahead

Joi is complicated.  So current technology like Siri and Alexa actually help you to accomplish your day to day tasks.  Keep track of your calendar, tell you what the weather is, when to pay your bills.  To make it more human (and possibly SEXIST) these helpers are almost always female.  Of course you change the voices – but those Sexist Pigs in Silicon Valley want a woman waiting on them hand and foot!

Now in the game community, we know a lot of those guys might be sexist, but more often than not, they’re sex-less.  They don’t have very good and constructive contact with the opposite sex.  So they imagine these ideal women and then create for lack a of better term, “Female Constructs”.

This is created in this movie. Interestingly enough, Ryan Gosling’s character, an Android/Cyborg/Bioroid cooks and cleans for himself.  He seems to be on top of his game in terms of keeping track of his agenda.

He has his 2049 Holographic Siri for other reasons.  A bit like HER by Spike Jonze, you’ve got a robot falling in love with an AI. And she’s been programmed to ….to be everything a man would ever desire in a woman – when he has every thing sorted out.

So let’s look at the first scene.  K (Gosling’s Character) comes home from a pretty rough day at work

K – “I had an accident at work…I tore my shirt”

Joi (Off screen) – “I’m sure I can fix that for you, lemme take a look at it”

K- “You want a drink first?”

Joi – “Pour me one, will you?”

K – *pours to glasses of a clear liquor*

Joi – (As K is putting down a meal on the table, glass noodles and something futurish) – “I’m trying a new recipe, I just need  bit more practice.”

As K sits down to eat, a bowl already in front of him, Joi’s voice – “It won’t be much longer, I’m just putting on the finishing touches.”

Joi (Sweetly) – “Okay, It’s ready.  I hope you’re gonna like it.”

Joi appears – she’s a hologram carrying holographic tray.  The tray she overlays the physical food he’s going to eat – is far more appetizing.

Joi – Bon Appetit – *and she kisses his cheek*

It’s an idealized wife from an idealized version of yesteryear.

Ana/Joi’s slight accent reminds me of Lucille Ball, having done something wrong, makes a special meal for Desi.

As a piece of game – it’s obvious how this program makes him feel – but also how the (male) audience would feel.  Wish fulfillment.  A woman that doesn’t complain, wants to fix your torn shirt, makes you a meal, kisses you on the cheek, is glad that you’re there.  Although Ana/Joi is very beautiful – this isn’t a sexual sort of thing.

Later on, K brings Ana a gift.  It’s a gift that she’s grateful for. (Although arguably, given that she is a program – this could be an insidious way of the corporate masters asking him to buy the upgrade…)

The movie’s script/in universe programming has her happy for the gift, but then unsure about it, and then embracing it fully.

And in the world of quid pro quo – she eventually makes it possible for her holographic self to give him what is essentially unimaginable.

Her entire character and her story arc are marvels in manipulation of typical masculine desires.

But there’s actually more game in the movie.

Jared Leto plays the Big Bad in the movie.  And the Big Bad always has to have a henchman.  This henchman is a strong woman, Luv.  Luv has a few lines about seduction and hits upon this key insight.

“We want someone to ask us questions, it makes us feel desired”

My overall take on this movie is that it’s great…if you like Blade Runner and you like slower Science Fiction.  I was a little surprised that it actually included some game.

-Archie

Hate to be all ripped from the headlines, but

Lucia Stoller, now Lucia Evans, was approached by Weinstein at Cipriani Upstairs, a club in New York, in 2004, the summer before her senior year at Middlebury College. Evans wanted to be an actress, and although she had heard rumors about Weinstein she let him have her number. Weinstein began calling her late at night, or having an assistant call her, asking to meet. She declined, but said that she would do readings during the day for a casting executive. Before long, an assistant called to set up a daytime meeting at the Miramax office, in Tribeca, first with Weinstein and then with a casting executive, who was a woman. “I was, like, ‘Oh, a woman, great, I feel safe,’ ” Evans said.

Now I know some of you mouth breathers are gonna be like, “She tried to play the game, but she got played” – but that misses the point.

Weinstein was a starmaker. But rather than dangle the carrot – he decided to use the stick.   Incessant calling of some college co-ed.  He’d rather coerce than entice.

When Evans arrived for the meeting, the building was full of people. She was led to an office with exercise equipment and takeout boxes on the floor, where she met with Weinstein alone. Evans said that she found him frightening. “The type of control he exerted, it was very real,” she told me. “Even just his presence was intimidating.”

Her subjective feelings are her own, I won’t speak for her – but the entire set up is akin to putting some teenager in a room with a grizzled homicide detective.  Force of will + environment = bad result

In the meeting, Evans recalled, “he immediately was simultaneously flattering me and demeaning me and making me feel bad about myself.” Weinstein told her that she’d “be great in ‘Project Runway’ ”—the show, which Weinstein helped produce, premièred later that year—but only if she lost weight

So on top of the coercive environment, his power over her career, he still makes it worse.

I’ll let you read the rest – but this is a perfect example of what not to do if you’re a rich and powerful celebrity.

Remember Billy C?

Here’s how him and Lewinsky got down, per CNN

November 1995: Lewinsky and President Bill Clinton begin a sexual relationship, according to audiotapes secretly recorded later by Linda Tripp.

December 1995: Lewinsky moves into a paid position in the Office of Legislative Affairs, handling letters from members of Congress. She frequently ferries mail to the Oval Office.

April 1996: Then-Deputy White House Chief of Staff Evelyn Lieberman transfers Lewinsky to a job as an assistant to Pentagon spokesman Ken Bacon. Lieberman told The New York Times the move was due to “inappropriate and immature behavior” and inattention to work. At the Pentagon, Lewinsky meets Tripp, a career government worker.

Summer 1996: Lewinsky begins to tell fellow Pentagon employee Linda Tripp of her alleged relationship with Clinton.

There are more details just on the CNN site – but this is a family blog!

My man Kevin Hart.  Some random chick gets involved with him and gets extorted because he has something to lose.

These guys are using the fame, power, wealth (more so the fame and power) to either coerce their way into something, take advantage of a situation, or get involved with people not understanding the blowback.

Now let’s look at another highly desirable public figure.  My man Derek Jeter. (he’s a badminton player right?)

“Derek has girls stay with him at his apartment in New York, and then he gets them a car to take them home the next day. Waiting in his car is a gift basket containing signed Jeter memorabilia, usually a signed baseball,” the friend dished.

“This summer, he ended up hooking up with a girl who he had hooked up with once before, but Jeter seemed to have forgotten about the first time and gave her the same identical parting gift, a gift basket with a signed Derek Jeter baseball,” the pal said.

“He basically gave her the same gift twice because he’d forgotten hooking up with her the first time!”

Derek is now married, but when he was single – HE WAS READY TO MINGLE.  He ain’t promising these chicks a spot on the team.  He didn’t have any “leverage” over them other than what he had to offer. They wanted to holla at the boy – he took care of them.

And that’s how you do it.

-Archie

This is beyond cliche

I got into a new group of friends that were all about their ‘personal brand.’ Every occasion was started with a good ten minutes of silence while they checked-in to Yelp, Foursquare, snapped photos of the venue / table / food, and tweeted bullshit along the lines of ‘having the time of my life!’ — I spent the time looking for typos and leading errors on the menus. It was exhausting. Everybody was there, but nobody was present. Even the meal itself was dull because of the endless obsession with creating something it wasn’t.

But this is essentially modern life.  On the forum, we used to talk about the dating apocalypse

• Broadband Everywhere – internet is fast enough that it keeps you engaged
• Smart Phones – Internet Everywhere
• Social Media – How people connect nowadays
• Dating Sites – How they often date

Each of these things on its own basically has been distorting changing human relationships.  But combined?

You’re new to the game.  You’ve been socializing all week in your day to day life.  Talking to friends, strangers, shopkeepers and clerks.  5 minutes of sportscenter in the morning to talk to the guys, 5 minutes of TMZ (or The Media Take Out if you prefer black women) – and you’ve got enough pop culture to pepper into a normal conversation.  Fresh fade from the barber, new shirt from the clearance rack, and your combination of intermittent fasting, paleo, and ketosis is doing damage to that slight beer belly, posture looking better because you only do three olympic lifts….  You’re primed to spit some game.

You hit up the venue an hour earlier than most and catch some of the early birds to the party.  A group of three walks in, one finer the other two, but any of them will do….Step over confidently….got one jewel of an opener you’re about to drop – and then they all get on their phones.   Sephora’s latest is now painfully illuminated by AMOLED.

It’s one thing to run up on a chick with her headphones blasting and her sunglasses on – and basically intrude in her living space.  Though that behavior shows “entitlement” and “male privilege” – being able to talk to one another is human.  You have a right to talk to her, just as she has a right to talk to you, to ignore you, and to keep it moving.

But there’s something about the phone that is different than just general day to day life.

People are pretty much addicted to their phones, so much so that when they are in public spaces – spaces designated for mixing and socializing – their addictions take over.

When you approach a girl who’s face is buried in her phone – you’re competing against digital heroin.

From the Guardian

Justin Rosenstein had tweaked his laptop’s operating system to block Reddit, banned himself from Snapchat, which he compares to heroin, and imposed limits on his use of Facebook. But even that wasn’t enough. In August, the 34-year-old tech executive took a more radical step to restrict his use of social media and other addictive technologies.

I don’t have any tried and true solutions for this.

You can always barge in to her space, you can always basically “break her state” – but the second that you’re not engaging enough, she returns (or drifts away mentally)

This is the modern era.

-Archie

Hmm, what should I write about today?

Well here’s a nice topic…

The good folks at CNN are reporting on why women cheat, and the reasons have changed.

Men cheat, women cheat, this is known.  But there’s been a 40% increase in the # of women reporting that they are cheating.

Of course the article doesn’t give us any baseline to understand what the # means, is this a move from 10 out of a 100 to 14 out of a 100 – or 40 out of a 100 moving to 56 out of a 100. (Math people do check my calculations in the comments)

Is the author of said article a woman?  Just so happens she is.  In the popular press, articles about relationships, dating, family and children are largely written by women.   I don’t want to get conspiratorial, but I’d say that on average – women have a different take on relationships than men.  We’ve discussed this before – but women primarily deal with “go getters” when it comes to sex and relationships.   They think that’s the sum total of all men, and basically dismiss all the men who’ve been socialized into *not* taking action.  Those men are invisible.  Our experience is obviously different.

Here at WIA Industries – We believe that women cheat for the exact same reasons and with the same or greater frequency than the average man.  The difference is that women get offered opportunities to have sex (thus possibly cheat) a lot more than men. And given the dynamics of how sex works – a woman can have more sex, more quality sex, and more diverse sex because of this.

Feeling inadequate yet?

Part of becoming a player is respecting a woman for her proclivities and her appetites.  Why did the Tiger maul his trainer?  The tiger is a tiger.  Tiger didn’t go crazy, it went Tiger.

In contrast – here’s what Mass Media is telling us

1. The Author Makes It About Herself, sorta

These questions first occurred to me a few years ago when I began to wonder how many of my friends were actually faithful to their husbands.

I was just chatting with Moma about the tendency of game gurus to go political after a while – I’m not trying to do that.  This is just media analysis.

2. Flexibile “morality”

….another friend told me she was 100 percent faithful to her husband, except when she was out of town for work each month. Not long after, another told me that while she’d never had sex with another man, she’d had so many emotional affairs and inappropriate email correspondences over the years that she’d had to buy a separate hard drive to store them all.

What happens in Vegas… Where have I heard that before?

Emotional affairs – Hmm, Work Husband by chance

Inappropriate Email – So a master of the text game.  (Shout to IRL, but we were discussing the meaning of “language” in the Mr. Smoov context)

3. Nonchalant

but that many of them were so nonchalant in the way they described their extramarital adventures

My take on a woman’s non-chalance about sex outside of marriage, parallels my thoughts on women’s thoughts about sex in general.

IT’S JUST NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL…until it becomes useful to them in some other context.

We guys have a tendency to overvalue things, work with fixed definitions, and stay in rigid constructs.  We want life to be static, women to be unchanging – when the facts on the ground tell us that all is in flux.

So the idea of sex, something we heavily value because it’s harder for us to get as much and as good as we want – that they can be nonchalant about having it, about breaking marital vows – it’s certain to enrage a man.

4. Needs not being Met and Blaming the Victim

Often, they loved their husbands, but felt in some fundamental way that their needs (sexual, emotional, psychological) were not being met inside the marriage. Some even wondered if their husbands knew about their infidelity, choosing to look away.

So one of the issues with any LTR monogamous relationship is that humans want variety and novelty.  That’s normal.  And a lot of guys have argued that they find monogamy to be abnormal.  Plenty of guys are in favor of polygynous arrangements.

Of course many of these guys saying such thing have really thought about how women would respond.  Chances are the average dude would not be able to collect his 4 wives – because the incentives to be a rich and powerful man’s 32nd wife is too great.

If you’ve been doing this a while, the long “suffering” house wife is not just a trope in porn.  Women often lead lives of quiet desperation – and often times being a 3rd party recognizing some value or worth is enough to get her juices flowing.

We also have to recognize that familiarity breeds contempt.  So even if the guy is “the perfect alpha”, “ultimate player” – merely being *different* from that guy is enough to get the fires burning.

The idea that the guy is looking the other way on being made a fool of – although it may be true in some cases – it’s probably just mental justification.

5. Self Awareness?

“The fact is,” one of these friends told me, “I’m nicer to my husband when I have something special going on that’s just for me.” She found that she was kinder, more patient, less resentful, “less of a bitch.”

Those last 4 words.  Hmm.

6. Marriage is Oppression!

Women were describing infidelity not as a transgression but a creative or even subversive act, a protest against an institution they’d come to experience as suffocating or oppressive.

Rollo and Roosh would have a field day with this.  But here’s some good game.  Shout to Reggie on the Barnum statements – but if you’re running long game (or long distance game) on a chick with a boyfriend/husband – this is the conclusion you want her to come to ON HER OWN.

Inception?

So in terms of game tech – we adapt this little factoid about some women thinking that marriage/relationships are oppression and that she needs to break free (with you, at the ice cream parlor of your choice)

Because you can’t really tell her that her relationship is a prison, but you can say that yours was…you can lead her through example. In discussing it with you, trying to bridge gaps, she’ll generate experiences from her own life.  To prompt this typical behavior, “Have you ever felt like that, like you were trapped, like you were expected to do…”

You can also use a breadcrumb strategy.  You leave “clues” and let her uncover these things for herself.

7. Stigma

They were also unwilling to bear the stigma of a publicly open marriage or to go through the effort of negotiating such a complex arrangement.

Aka, discretion is key in these relationships – but the game takeaway is that she DEEPLY cares about how she appears publicly.

A lot of you guys going for those makeout sessions on the dance floor in front of everybody – two things happen

• Release in Tension
• Social Consequence

We’ve talked about that kissing a chick before you get to a place where things can go down is a bad move.  But a lot of chicks a) don’t like PDA in general, b) don’t like kissing your ugly mug in front of their peers.

Discretion, Discretion, Discretion.

8. Invisible Labor

They found married life incredibly dull and constraining and resented the fact that as women, they felt they consistently did a disproportionate amount of the invisible labor that went into maintaining their lifestyle

What’s interesting here from the male perspective is that there is plenty of invisible labor on our side to keep the chick “on tilt”. And what’s worse, you can’t keep doing the same tricks over and over.  At some point, the flowers no longer help.  The back rubs do nothing.  The chocolate only makes her fat.

But since this isn’t written from a guy trying to keep things going….

9. So His Fault Right?

“The inequality of it all is such an annoying factor that I am usually in a bad mood when my spouse is in my presence,”

That’s the male sort of take.  The player recognizes that a lot of the tangible things in a relationship – they are about mood, feeling, and emotion.

So your chick comes home in a mood.  The typical guy thing is to placate, ask what’s wrong, or ignore.  The player move is to engage and perform some emotional jujitsu.  The same way that you engaged her when you met – the roller coaster of emotions that eventually lands in “amorous” mode – is the same thing you need to do here.

If she stays in a bad mood around YOU, guess what happens when she’s not in a bad mood and you come around?

This is that invisible labor of keeping a relationship together – because it’s now your task to keep the chick on track.

This is the inherent conflict of Alpha and Player and the LTR.  The Alpha does not care in the least. So she’ll get frustrated, send signs, and eventually leave. The player is trying to engineer something all the time.   He doesn’t go “Baby what’s wrong”, but she keeps calling for him to give her that back and forth to get her out of her emotional rut.

We often talk about how women use things outside of themselves to feel better.  Retail therapy, eating….She’s an entirely “new” person with a makeover.  Guess what you are?

Offensively, this works well. If you’re dealing with a chick, and you want to engage all senses – create externals that address those things.  It doesn’t need to be elaborate.  Words, Touch, and Pulling away are often all you need.

10. Center of the Universe Thinking

this idea that someone has to be managing the emotional heart of your tiny community. I think women do that a lot

Girls rarely go out solo.  They go out in groups.  When you approach a group, you’re often dealing with this sort of dynamic.  Every girl in the group has a different role.  One girl might be the draw – so pretty or loud that she draws attention.  One may be the gate keeper.  One might be the cop.   But one who might not be the “leader” aka alpha female – who’s active and engaging with you – she might be the heart.  There are other characters in any girl’s groups – there’s no exhaustive list – but most pick up literature focuses on “besting” or “winning over” the friends of the “target” in order to steal her away.  If a player doesn’t get the full social dynamics of the group – non-stop calls and text messages to your chick’s phone.

It all stems back to this community idea and being the heart.  How this one chick feels within in her little community, her need to manage the emotions of everyone around her – important thing to know and “defuse”.

11. Repeat a Lie and Then Move the Goal Posts

“I think there’s an incredible amount of deep resentment for women in America about divisions of labor,” said sociologist Lisa Wade when I asked her to comment on this contradiction. “And what social scientists are finding now is that there is a correlation between equal division of labor and better sex.”

So keep in mind this is an article about married women cheating on their husbands.  Without actually saying it, the premise is that married women are getting better sex outside of the marriage.  More and deeper orgasms, more fulfillment.

Let me ask you this?  Are the guys that they’re sleeping with also doing the dishes, taking out the trash, and fixing meals for the kids?  Bang a chick out and clean up her bathroom?

LOL

Propaganda that women reading CNN can forward to their girlfriends and husbands in order to extract more housework out of men.  Keep in mind that women’s cleanliness standards tend to be far more exacting.  She’s the one that needs the closet to be “organized”, not him.

And if he’s cleaner than her, cooks better, does whatever traditional female task better – she often “playfully” mocks him for it.

I’m reminded of a NYT article about Wall Street Women making far more money than their husbands.  One line in particular that I recall went something like “I got a 7 figure bonus and my husband thinks I should still suck his dick…”

So in terms of adapting this “household labor” meme to your short game – You’re not going to do it, and she’d better be okay with that.

12. The Burden

These women seem to be finding that no amount of sensitivity or goodwill on the part of their husbands can save them from the fact that in every arena, from work to marriage to parenthood, they’re always doing more for less.

No amount?  Then why even bother?

13. Blame it on my Mama

Twenty or thirty years ago they might have opted for divorce, because surely there was another man out there who could do better in this role, who could satisfy them completely. But a lot of these women are children of divorce. They lived through the difficulties divorce can create.

Better that I cheat, rather than force divorce on my children.

Earlier in the paragraph is the real key – No man can satisfy them completely.  Truth or not, they believe this.  So if that’s the state of affairs, why should men try?

Indeed, what players have found is what Patrice O’Neal said – You can’t make a woman happy.

His example was that his girl wanted to flowers, and he bought her flowers.  Then candy, he bought her candy.  Then the movies – and she still wanted more.  None of these things had satisfied her.

This is what this article is telling us, though not telling us directly.  Because to admit that no one man could make any given woman eternally happy would send such an honest message that this whole house of cards would come falling down.

14. What Marriage Means to the Author, and by Proxy many women

At the time I married, marriage had felt like a panacea; it was a bond that would provide security, love, friendship, stability, and romance — the chance to have children and nice dishes, to be introduced as someone’s wife. It promised to expand my circle of family and improve my credit score, to tether me to something wholesome and give my life meaning.

Some of these are honorable platitudes – the others are very selfish and vain.

The player can look at these things, and makes sure that he offers NONE of them.  Because the downside of being “Mr. Right”, being “A catch” is that you’ve got a good chance of ending up like these husbands.

15. Being Corporate

valuing their marriages for the things it could offer and outsourcing the rest

So that’s about 2500 words reacting to “news of the day”.

Lessons

The TL DR is that married women are admitting to infidelity more, but mainstream media is on the one hand blaming men for not doing enough of the “invisible labor” and the household labor, but also that women expect too much fulfillment from relationships.

The player then takes advantage of the state of affairs by

• Offering sanctuary.
• Not emulating what their husbands do and don’t do.
• Not expecting to be a woman’s everything.

-Archie

This is a follow up to this post on whether you really need Game.

Lemme relay a RSD Luke anecdote.  Luke was talking about one of the hottest chicks that he’d ever dealt with.  He saw her.  He stepped up. (I don’t know if he was doing his patented drive-by compliment thing).  But basically as soon as he started to spit – she was feeling him.

Luke – “I was pissed.  This girl ALREADY liked me.”

That happens.  There’s a percentage of girls out there that just dig you/your look/your vibe.  Let’s say 15% of the chicks you approach confidently, will just dig you.  10% will hate you, no matter what you do.  But the bulk are indifferent.

But why was he mad that a hot girl was already feeling him?  Shouldn’t he be jumping for joy?

Luke was mad because he had a Wikipedia of game ready to drop on this chick – but she basically laid down flat when he stepped in the door.  He didn’t get to flex his muscles.  He wasn’t running game.

Her being attracted to him wasn’t even hhis internalized game. It certainly wasn’t  that unconscious competence thing that guys seem to love.  This wasn’t being in the “zone” either.

The chick just liked him, so he didn’t need to run any game.  Specifically he didn’t need to run any attraction material.  He probably still had to run minimal trust game, and then hit her with the Butter Pecan later that night.

Attraction material, the give and take, after a while that becomes the pleasurable part of the game.  Most guys start out wanting this roll over cute chick. Show her some attention and she just shows you attention.  But after a while, those “sassy” chicks that are derided on message boards become the goal.  A chick that can push back.  That can challenge you.  That can get you to step up your game.

I’m sure all of you want to be like Luke, but we’ve talked about the problems that pretty boys have.  That first pull is the beginning of 2 problems, particular problems the guy has with that girl, and problems that the guy has himself.

Let’s get back to the topic.

Was he running game or not?

• So how did he know he wasn’t running game?
• Does game require that you deal with indifferent or hostile chicks?

Well, yeah, kinda.

I had this discussion with soup years ago, and it boils down to this question.

Do you screen?  Or do you convert?

For people not in the game, there is NO SUCH THING AS CONVERSION.  You cannot make someone do what they don’t want to do.

All of your little tricks

• She sees through
• She wanted you when you showed up
• You’re tricking yourself

And everyone who says this – never bought something they didn’t intend to buy, never voted for someone they didn’t agree with.  Basically denialists of psychology, advertising, marketing, neuroscience….etc

For people in the game – the question is not about can conversion work – but whether it’s worth it.

Time you spend sweet talking a girl, socially engineering a situation, the energy and effort expended in consciously flipping her switches is better spent just finding a girl that wants to leave the venue TONIGHT.   In a sense, they’re all interchangeable at this level of engagement anyway – so why do anything extra?

Part of the answer is lies in the Luke anecdote.  You have these skills and tactics that are fun to use, make the experience enjoyable for yourself, provide a challenge etc.

The other reason for wanting to CONVERT versus just screen is the holy grail of game, CHOICE.

When you press the buttons – you get to choose what it is you want.  Rather than take the path of least resistance, you get to go where you want.  You can look past indifference and hostility and uncover the real girl underneath.   Because she’s not always distant, not always mad at the world.

So game is CONVERSION.  You do something active to come to an understanding with the girl.

The key here is that the man is being active.  He’s presenting the lady with opportunities that she may not have thought of or realized.  Left to her own devices, she’d probably not go in that direction.

Like if you go out with a girl, she orders the salad, and you get a salad – but then ask the waiter to bring you a side of fries….

You didn’t initially order fries.  She wasn’t going to order fries.  But now that you have, she predictably wants to steal one.

That’s the game.  The player is consciously and deliberately setting up situations for the chick to do things.

A lot of arguments suggest that game is really seeing a spark and turning it into a flame.

No.

The game is taking raw ingredients and starting a fire.

And like the Steal a French Fry gambit – it’s setting up a situation so that she CRAVES what happens next.

It’s not enough to talk to a chick, get good vibes, leave together, and share a banana split.  You want her in the grocery store, picking flavors, finding the ripest fruit, grabbing sauces and accoutrements.   She has to really want to do it – she’s dying to do it.  She’s not some passive vessel, but an active person. And that’s what the game is.

So in terms of game – I like to think of it as showing her rewards, and how to earn them.   She desperately wants whatever it is that is shown.  She craves it.

This is how I’m starting to analyze a lot of my game, and the game is others.   What is the guy consciously introducing to the interaction?  What is he making her crave?

It’s like kids. They can see you with a ball, playing with the ball,, having fun with the ball. Now they want the ball. But you play keep away.

Eventually you give the kid the ball. And then as they’re playing with the ball, the excitement starts to dissipate.  Then you start eating a cookie. And the cycle continues.

It’s the same psychology at the slot machines. People keep playing because they get 4 out of 5 cherries..just a few more coins…and I’ll win.

A lot of chicks say that they dig the foreplay more than the act.  Some girls think of the first words as the beginning of the foreplay.

Are you making the girl crave something?

That’s a sign that you’re running game.

-Archie

 

This conversation sparks from a mini-conversation over @ Rollo’s and from The Thread.

The scenario is 2 decent looking chicks are the only options at a bar.  Jock Bro and his two cronies show up.

• The better looking chick opens up Dude Bro.
• Dude Bro is used to the attention.
• Fast Forward a few minutes and the dudes start entertaining the chicks.

While they’re having a jolly old time at the bar – Mr. Smooth enters the frame.

• He makes a beeline for the chick
• goes to her side
• locks in body wise
• whispers in her ear
• basically commits grand larceny for the Jock Dude and his bros.

I don’t have Rollo’s thread open, but Mr. Smooth even sends one of the dudes away by moving a chair or something.   So not only did he outclass Jock Dude, grab the chick, he even sidelined the underlings.

NOT COOL MAN!

My analysis isn’t really on Rollo – but it does meld with what we’re talking about over at the Moma’s and Rudebwoy’s thread – about what Alpha REALLY means.  So this post is putting together a few things I read today.

There is a textbook definition of alpha.

There are also examples from nature.  Many of the natural examples are in dispute. The OG example was about wolves, and that has found to be untrue.  I read something today about tracking animal movements within herds – and the so-called omegas were still able to gather their own cronie and get stuff done.   Contrast that with the Walruses and Lions – where the top male gets all the best food and mates with the majority of the women.

In the game-o-sphere, we have confirmation bias, so we like the Lion/Walrus alpha model and discard things that don’t fit that model.   From here, you should be hit with all sorts of ads for Jack3d (do they still make Jack#d), Creatine, and the Dodge Demon.  Oh wait, I don’t have any advertising on this site.

But recent times has a very narrow vision of what Alpha is.  Based on the forum it’s almost always some Oil Rig guy in Belarus or some place where women are women.

You know me though.  I think this alpha stuff is some bull.  Old school PUA basically debunked the idea that you needed to be this manly man in order to get the type of relationship you wanted.  Same with the money.

Most of the time, I mock that whole “alpha” stuff.

I mock it, because I came up in this game in black clubs.  In a black club there are plenty of tall, well built, black dudes. Some are rich. Some well dressed. Some good dancers.  Some very personable.  Many were very loud.  And despite all of these natural advantages, they would fail time and time again.

The worst absolute worst type of dude at this club was probably the most in terms of alpha.  Alpha often means “taking what you want from life”.  The guys that were going gorilla, and grabbing any chick by the hand, forearm, or bicep were the worst.

This is the sort of thing the Beyonce’s and Demi Lovato’s of the world have nightmares about.

But that’s just black clubs right?

When I go to mixed clubs or lily white clubs – it’s the same basic patterns.  Guys with “the goods”, the look of “alpha” get initial attention, rap to chicks, and you see the chicks fail to light up, sometimes die on the inside.  You gotta add a lot of alcohol to the mix for the off beat “grind on her ass from the back” “move” to work.

But, hold up a sec.  (c) Bushwick Bill

Before we throw out the baby with the bathwater, let’s go a little deeper.

Sometimes this neanderthal shit – this take what you want mentality – does indeed work and sometimes it doesn’t. I’m not gonna let my personal bias stop me from trying to break it down.

The scene I started this with was probably a genuine in the real world alpha.    Tall, good looks, leader of men, took what he wanted.  Now if you read what Sentient dropped, basically he went into dancing monkey mode with the chicks for laughs.  When you’re at the top of the mountain – you can do that.   The King gets to do whatever he wants.

But then you had a literal Alpha Male Other Guy (AMOG) come into his kingdom and basically pull a Rhaegar on his Lyanna Stark.

Who was the alpha here?  The strong tall guy?  Or the skinny tall guy who took the girl?  Who would win in a fight?  Who had more money?

And that’s one of the reasons I dislike all this He-Man stuff masquerading as game.  Leaning on the contemporary short sighted ideals about manhood, manliness, alpha – does not let you figure out what happened here and why?  Because she should have stuck with the stronger guy.  She should have done the quick mental calculus and realized that the skinny guy had a lower SMV.

Let’s take a quick detour.

So part of the patented Archie “Get to Know a Girl During an Ice Cream Social” process (only $49.97 at your local torrent site) – is after you’ve finished a banana split and she’s chilling in the afterglow – you ask her

“When did you know you wanted to kiss me?”

“When did you know that you liked me?”

“When did you know we’d end up here?”

As a technical note – If you understand my game – this isn’t about trying to figure out THROUGH HER, when she fell for you.  You do this as part of the process to build trust after the two scoops have melted.  Again the sub-communications are more important than the communications.

You can’t really trust her recollection (or your own). People have notoriously poor memories.  Memories aren’t like things recorded in books, they’re reconstructed.  That’s why you can get kids to remember abuse that didn’t happen, or getting lost at the mall when they never did.   You have people repeate stories, stop them, ask clarifying questions – and in order to please you – they modify “the truth”.  It’s the basis of many a false interrogation. With the game, a chick that just gave you her French vanilla, often wants to feel close to you.  Not always though.  *Hats off to my ladies that hit it and quit it*

People don’t especially remember EXACTLY what they were thinking.  I also don’t want to get into thinking versus feeling debate.

So even if you can get a plausible answer to this question, you’ll never be objectively sure at what point her brain chemistry started to favor your jeans genes.

Also keep in mind, most of communication is non-verbal.  It’s touches, facial expressions, micro-reactions, silences that hang, etc.

So this has happened to me a few times, I ask the question and a chick says

“I didn’t know I wanted to kiss you, until you kissed me”

Suddenly the Alpha style starts to make sense.

Mr. Smooth in Sentient’s story is absolutely sure of himself.  That he’d get the girl, that the guys would be no competition, that everything would go according to plan.    Guys that don’t get the game relegate Jock Bro as some Cro Magnon that would get blown out.  They need to find a flaw in his version of alpha to keep the idea of alpha going. But that’s not actually what’s happening here.

Had Mr. Smooth not shown up, Jock Bro had enough buy in from his girl that they would have been eating some rocky road at the end of the night.  “Alpha” would have won.

Mr. Smooth came in “alpha” as well, just a different sort of alpha.

He was entitled.  He was entitled not because the girl showed interest, not like the Jock.

To bring this back to my story about chicks only deciding they wanted to kiss me as I kissed them*- to an extent you can look at my experience and Mr. Smooth’s experience as the bending of reality because you’re so sure of yourself.

*The chick was showing me signs that she was ready well before I went in for the kiss.  Lingering looks, embraces, over-laughing – All the basic signs that people around you can observe.  Usually when a chick is falling hard, her GF’s come through and yank her by the pony tail so she doesn’t make a “mistake”. But it was a notable thing for her to say.

I don’t want to call it visionary game – but that’s essentially what it is.  Mr. Smooth was a visionary.  The idea of the visionary is that you get people to see your vision.  The vision itself can be compelling – but your belief in the vision is what motivates others.  Your certainty.  Ideally it is action first and explanation later.

Mr. Smooth didn’t break out a manifesto. But his certainty that everything would go right. That the guys in the group would assume that he knew her, that she would respond favorably, and that the new status quo would basically change the game.

We’ll never know what he whispered in her ear – but it doesn’t really matter does it?

-Archie

 

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again.  If you’re aim is to meet a couple of girls and take them back to your place for ice cream and what not – super strategizing game is overkill.

In regular life people connect when

• Tipsy guy approach tipsy girl
• He says his little spiel
• She likes what she sees and hears or doesn’t care and
• He manages to gets past all the bs to get her back to his place.

That’s not really game, because she’s making that decision based on what she likes, with little to no input from him.  All he is doing is making himself available.

The thing to keep in mind is that she could choose someone else that night who’s more to her liking.  It just so happens that Mr. Right didn’t make his way over to her, and the guy she ends up talking to is good enough.

Chicks bang guys that aren’t their personal 10’s, they do so regularly.  That’s essentially the norm.  And if you consider things on a superficial level- how much time they put into their appearance vs how much time he does – it’s hard for a girl to not date “down”.

Why does she get with Mr. Okay?

• Maybe it’s her time of the month
• Maybe it’s her birthday
• Maybe she wants revenge
• Maybe she’s not feeling attractive (This is an interesting one, I need to make a mental note on this. But the game theory a lot of us work with – is that girls often reach outside of themselves to figure out how to feel.  That’s good leverage to have on chicks.)

And all of these reasons are totally fine. There’s so many women out there that go home by themselves because most guys don’t even go out. And of the ones that do go out, they often refuse to meet even the low bar of presentability, approaching her, and attempting to connect.

For above average results, the average looking guy with average socialization probably just needs a makeover to look “cool” and a month of going out every night to get over his approach anxiety with cute girls.

From a veteran’s perspective, whatever you teach that guy is not game, but placebo. He’s got a few lines and some basic idea of where the interaction is going to go.  He’s off the races.

So what’s happening here?

As we say in my neck of the woods, he’s getting chose.

In all honesty that’s what most guys need, even if our culture has made normal hooking up damn near illegal.

Money?

How much does average game really cost?

• Do you have a place of your own?
• A car?
• Can you afford to go out,
• pay some cover charges,
• Pay for parking
• Buy a few drinks?
• Own a pair of jeans that fits you
• Some shoes from Aldo

That’s basically all the “wealth” you need. To be fair, that might be more than the average college guy. But if you’ve got a middle class job, you’re pretty much set in terms of money.

Having a phat downtown crib in some cosmopolitan city with a private roof deck with a pool, tastefully decorated, and a drop top Benz, bespoke and designer closet just isn’t necessary.

Consider that most of these 18-22 year old girls are living with roommates (often it’s mom and dad) and driving Hyundais.  If they’re doing better, it’s because the parents have money.    What a young girl wants more than “provisioning” is fun and excitement.

Girls that are slightly older may be in the work force and have what you have or more – but she can’t see your Junior One Bedroom at the bar.

Having the “lifestyle”  and dating girls that are of marriageable age (23-28) that’s counter-productive. They see a cool guy with stuff = marriage material. Suddenly she’s got to be in her best behavior and pretend she’s not a “fun girl”.

In terms of other typical attractors

• Lifting weights helps a tiny bit.  But being slim is better than being fat.  Having obvious muscles is better than being slim.  Getting to bodybuilder frame is beyond overkill.
• Being tall helps get you attention.  If you’re not tall (which is now 6’3″ and better.  Damn you kids and your better nutrition)
• Actually knowing people in the scene, helps far more than both of those in my experience. But local “fame” comes with going out a fair amount and making the effort to meet people. Get on a few promoters lists, know some bartenders and dj’s, and keep track of events in town – and most guys would get more pussy than they could handle.

Take some photos of you looking cool, put them on your instagram/tinder profile, come up with a few messages – you’re basically the Hugh Hefner of cute chicks.

That upper echelon of chicks that guys fantasize about, the “I only date CEO’s and Rockstars” – most of the time you’re not even going to be in the same room as these people.

So rethink your dedication to the game thing.   Look a little better, go out more, and you’ll have the conventional relationships with cute girls that you crave.

But you just don’t want the norm do you?  In which case, keep reading

-Archie

Shout to ijjji putting this up

This is a taste of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superficial_charm

Contemporary interest in superficial charm goes back to Hervey M. Cleckley‘s classic study (1941) of the sociopath: since his work it has become widely accepted that the sociopath/psychopath was characterised by superficial charm and a disregard for other people’s feelings.^[5] According to Hare, “Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything.”^[6]

Subsequent studies have refined, but not perhaps fundamentally altered, Cleckley’s initial assessment. In the latest diagnostic review, Cleckley’s mix of intelligence and superficial charm has been redefined to reflect a more deviant demeanour, talkative, slick, and insincere.^[7] A distinction can also be drawn between a subtle, self-effacing kind of sociopathic charm,^[8] and a more expansive, exhilarating spontaneity which serves to give the sociopath a sort of animal magnetism.^[9]

There’s some fairly good game on this forum, but you gotta dig for it.

-Archie

Ten more quotes and then we’ll get into the reason why I put this up in the first place.

Petyr is about his paper.

To an extent, this mirrors the contemporary take on game.  With enough money you can get what you want.  Now, I can tell you when I went from low 5 figures to mid 6 figures – my game options got worse.  I leaned on my paper too hard.  We’ve talked about how to use money to increase your game before so I won’t rehash that.

Out with the Old and in with the New

In this scene Petyr destroys a snow castle.  He’s trying to school Sansa on to stop living in the past and fighting old battles, and to think about doing something new, something better.

What is the meaning of truth?

Now I’m not saying you gotta lie.  But unless you’re in the laboratory, truth really is in the eye of the beholder.  Petyr lies and lies and lies.  But he tells lies that people can believe.  There’s a great portion in the book where the King’s council are trying to come up with a rumor about Stannis to counter the ones circulating about Cersei and Jaime.  Baelish wants to spread the rumor that the child of Stannis was fathered by the court jester, Patchface.  The facts don’t matter in this case.

The Game Doesn’t End

When you’re in the game, no matter what you get, you always want more.  I’ve dated perfection, 3 times.  LTR’d all 3 of them.  Lived with all 3 of them.  Now my eye didn’t wander (much), but once you’ve got a princess in your life – your attention turns to something else.  That’s human nature, and understanding that helps you in your game.  A man shouldn’t castigate himself for wanting something new.  He should also recognize that he may be the prince that she was promised, but even chicks get bored with perfection.

What a player does?

The traditional pimp, player, hustler, con man, preacher, businessman, politician – what he does is create a fantasy in the mind of his audience.  Little Finger makes sure to be entertaining.

All this game that my boy has, how did he fall off?

The Downfall

George (RR Martin) always manages to write some weakness into his characters.  Petyr’s love of Catelyn and not her sister ends up coming back to haunt him.  This is attachment to his “one-itis” may be the thing that makes his house of cards fall apart.

Now, I don’t think this is how LF died in the show is how it’s going to play out in the books.  For one, the tension between Sansa and Arya was weird, and their master plan involved a deus ex machina in Weirwood Boy Bran.

The real tragedy is how Sansa felt about Little Finger, and that’s where the game lesson is.

So for those that don’t follow the show or have read the books, lemme break it down in player terms.

Little Finger is trying to capture the Iron Throne.  How he plans to do so is not clear, but he likes to improvise and plan.  He starts a war between Starks and the Lannisters, but then saves the daughter of the only woman he’s ever loved, Sansa.

In the books, Sansa is learning the game at the foot of the master.  In the show, we get a little bit of that at the end of one of the seasons, before she’s sent to Ramsay.  I’m not clear on the exact timing, but LF does make a move on this teenager and plants a fat one on her lips.  From there, she’s going to the North.

What happens on the show is that whatever meager skills that Little Finger dropped on her, she’s not sharp enough to manipulate sociopath Ramsay.  (Contrast that with Margaery Tyrell getting schooled on the game by the Queen of Thorns and learning how to play Joffrey)

 

I don’t want to get into all that unpleasantness of Sansa in Winterfell.  By the time that turn of the wheel finished, Little Finger comes to her rescue again. Saving her, her brother, and regaining them their castle.

You’d think she’d be on her knees for Little Finger.  He gave her the game, her family, and her home.

A player would never make this mistake.  You give a chick everything, and all you’re gonna get is ingratitude.  So the showrunners are clearly not players and don’t want Little Finger to remain one.

They did get Sansa’s reaction right.  She has nothing but contempt for him.

Within the universe of the show, he basically played the provider, and he got played for it.

Even though this is fiction, Sophie Turner’s disgust for LF carries straight through the show.  She finds him vile, the man who saved her life twice.

So one of the things that I took away from this – You can’t attempt to make a chick entirely happy.  To do so, she’ll have no more use for you.

Lemme turn the mic to you guys?

What do you think he did to make her loathe him so?

-Archie