This is a follow up to this post on whether you really need Game.
Lemme relay a RSD Luke anecdote. Luke was talking about one of the hottest chicks that he’d ever dealt with. He saw her. He stepped up. (I don’t know if he was doing his patented drive-by compliment thing). But basically as soon as he started to spit – she was feeling him.
Luke – “I was pissed. This girl ALREADY liked me.”
That happens. There’s a percentage of girls out there that just dig you/your look/your vibe. Let’s say 15% of the chicks you approach confidently, will just dig you. 10% will hate you, no matter what you do. But the bulk are indifferent.
But why was he mad that a hot girl was already feeling him? Shouldn’t he be jumping for joy?
Luke was mad because he had a Wikipedia of game ready to drop on this chick – but she basically laid down flat when he stepped in the door. He didn’t get to flex his muscles. He wasn’t running game.
Her being attracted to him wasn’t even hhis internalized game. It certainly wasn’t that unconscious competence thing that guys seem to love. This wasn’t being in the “zone” either.
The chick just liked him, so he didn’t need to run any game. Specifically he didn’t need to run any attraction material. He probably still had to run minimal trust game, and then hit her with the Butter Pecan later that night.
Attraction material, the give and take, after a while that becomes the pleasurable part of the game. Most guys start out wanting this roll over cute chick. Show her some attention and she just shows you attention. But after a while, those “sassy” chicks that are derided on message boards become the goal. A chick that can push back. That can challenge you. That can get you to step up your game.
I’m sure all of you want to be like Luke, but we’ve talked about the problems that pretty boys have. That first pull is the beginning of 2 problems, particular problems the guy has with that girl, and problems that the guy has himself.
Let’s get back to the topic.
Was he running game or not?
- So how did he know he wasn’t running game?
- Does game require that you deal with indifferent or hostile chicks?
Well, yeah, kinda.
I had this discussion with soup years ago, and it boils down to this question.
Do you screen? Or do you convert?
For people not in the game, there is NO SUCH THING AS CONVERSION. You cannot make someone do what they don’t want to do.
All of your little tricks
- She sees through
- She wanted you when you showed up
- You’re tricking yourself
And everyone who says this – never bought something they didn’t intend to buy, never voted for someone they didn’t agree with. Basically denialists of psychology, advertising, marketing, neuroscience….etc
For people in the game – the question is not about can conversion work – but whether it’s worth it.
Time you spend sweet talking a girl, socially engineering a situation, the energy and effort expended in consciously flipping her switches is better spent just finding a girl that wants to leave the venue TONIGHT. In a sense, they’re all interchangeable at this level of engagement anyway – so why do anything extra?
Part of the answer is lies in the Luke anecdote. You have these skills and tactics that are fun to use, make the experience enjoyable for yourself, provide a challenge etc.
The other reason for wanting to CONVERT versus just screen is the holy grail of game, CHOICE.
When you press the buttons – you get to choose what it is you want. Rather than take the path of least resistance, you get to go where you want. You can look past indifference and hostility and uncover the real girl underneath. Because she’s not always distant, not always mad at the world.
So game is CONVERSION. You do something active to come to an understanding with the girl.
The key here is that the man is being active. He’s presenting the lady with opportunities that she may not have thought of or realized. Left to her own devices, she’d probably not go in that direction.
Like if you go out with a girl, she orders the salad, and you get a salad – but then ask the waiter to bring you a side of fries….
You didn’t initially order fries. She wasn’t going to order fries. But now that you have, she predictably wants to steal one.
That’s the game. The player is consciously and deliberately setting up situations for the chick to do things.
A lot of arguments suggest that game is really seeing a spark and turning it into a flame.
No.
The game is taking raw ingredients and starting a fire.
And like the Steal a French Fry gambit – it’s setting up a situation so that she CRAVES what happens next.
It’s not enough to talk to a chick, get good vibes, leave together, and share a banana split. You want her in the grocery store, picking flavors, finding the ripest fruit, grabbing sauces and accoutrements. She has to really want to do it – she’s dying to do it. She’s not some passive vessel, but an active person. And that’s what the game is.
So in terms of game – I like to think of it as showing her rewards, and how to earn them. She desperately wants whatever it is that is shown. She craves it.
This is how I’m starting to analyze a lot of my game, and the game is others. What is the guy consciously introducing to the interaction? What is he making her crave?
It’s like kids. They can see you with a ball, playing with the ball,, having fun with the ball. Now they want the ball. But you play keep away.
Eventually you give the kid the ball. And then as they’re playing with the ball, the excitement starts to dissipate. Then you start eating a cookie. And the cycle continues.
It’s the same psychology at the slot machines. People keep playing because they get 4 out of 5 cherries..just a few more coins…and I’ll win.
A lot of chicks say that they dig the foreplay more than the act. Some girls think of the first words as the beginning of the foreplay.
Are you making the girl crave something?
That’s a sign that you’re running game.
-Archie
You’ve been popping off on these posts recently.
You have a perspective on useful things to get her to crave?
Don’t really like a girl that is always after my approval
She craves the interaction, the back and forth, the ups and downs.
That’s why cold reads work so well.
Either you’re right, she thinks you’re observant, and wants more.
Or you’re wrong, she’s light weight offended, and she must defend herself and her ego.
Anything that taps into human narcissism can drive that cycle forward.
And once she’s on the hook, the game starts.
Archie,
Have you ever looked into Barnum statements? They are cold read statements that apply to almost everyone. They are great for cold reading because they are universal and the girl will think you are psychic. Amazing tool for game.
Examples:
1. You have a great need for other people to like and admire you.
2. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself.
3. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage.
4. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them.
5. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside.
6. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing.
7. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations.
8. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others’ statements without satisfactory proof.
9. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others.
10. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved.
11. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic.
12. Security is one of your major goals in life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect
Most definitely. A list of these things would be really practical, but take some time to compile.
For the most part a player can get a fresh set by looking up today’s horoscopes.
Like having good looks, being tall, telling good jokes – once she’s intrigued – you have to take it somewhere.
A good stripper can seduce you with a glance. But then she asks you for something (and promises very little).
So not just piquing interest, the next step is getting them to do something, give up something – so that you get investment.
And if you invest in a lapdance, it must be because you genuinely like her – not that you were lead into that cycle of validation through her putting you through obvious stimuli. And she’s giving you something right, so she must like you.
Reverse the genders, same behavior. It’s just that you are not shaking what your mama gave you.
Hmm, would you consider all the “screening” “numbers” stuff to be kind of like the white belt level Archie?
A guy works out the basics, internalizes the basic attitudes, and then moves on to the more cerebral aspects for “higher level belts”?
I’ve played around with the cold readings stuff , the old PUA routines, very primitive NLP stuff, but my successes have all come from screening and “don’t fuck it up” once I noticed that some chick was into me. Which for me was light years beyond what I’d been able to do when I was a kid.
If you were going to break it down “white belt”, “blue belt” “black belt”, how would you organize the skill sets?
Good question Chuck
So there’s the No Game game – which is basically optimizing your look and stepping up to the plate. I’d say most men throughout history NEVER engaged in cold approach. Most relationships nowadays are from social circles and “normal” connections. Cold approaches are “weird” to some extent.
So you’ve got a lot of rookies that once they start engaging with chicks on a regular basis. By just raw cold approaching, going direct, they’re essentially screening for chicks that like their look and behavior. What guys often find is that when they’ve gotten over the fear of rejection, the fear of escalation, and get a handle on conversations that switch topics frequently (how women often talk to each other) – that’s all they need to get Biblical. But that might not be all they want.
So the first level of game – is being purposeful about what you do and say to get a specific response. Making a girl laugh on purpose is say level 1, a white belt. The next belt up is making her laugh, but you DON’T laugh at your own joke. So she’s laughing and wondering why you’re not laughing. From there, you can press your humor advantage. A professional comedian rarely laughs at his own stuff. He delivers, extends, waits for a reaction, pauses..doesn’t laugh, pushes the emotion further and further, until he can get some deeper emotional reaction. From a thin chuckle to a roaring laugh.
So you got a regular dude just making jokes and laughing – and he’s doing better than the average Jamal.
When the game comes in – is that he has enough self control to make her laugh and not laugh.
That causes people to wonder why, or go deeper. Oftentimes, laughter is nervous and is about feeling out the situation.
The more control he has over self, and the more emotions that he can predictably stir up and steer – the greater his game. The NLP stuff is about trying to elicit those feelings in a sneaky way. Not just the weasel words like “Below me”, but using very descriptive language to paint images in a chick’s mind, like an old school Nas rap – but the NLP practitioner is not trying to get caught. He’s trying to sneak in through the backdoor.
Routines – routines tend to be “logic based humor” or “logic based wonder”. A lot of them tend to be of the “ice breaker” variety. So guy uses a routine to get into a nice chat. That’s the “social hook point”. He then changes the chat to be about the girl in an attempt to go from “this guy is interesting to talk to” to “this guy is a sexual option”. When guys teach routines, this is essentially what the end goal is, but often times they get lost in the content of routine. I love routines, just like I love stories and love jokes. But they are a means to an end, not an end to themselves. Understanding routines and how they work – if you start to read/watch how stories are made, how jokes are told – that will explain a lot about the why/how something works. The PUA’s that wrote some of the best routines were magicians and comedians – but they didn’t know how to explain that magician/comedian mindset to lay people. They just gave them the tech.
But skill set organization is on my things to write list.
Girls like to be knocked off balance, mentally, socially, physically. Being able to do that is a show of dominance, which is basic biology.
Have you read my post about Sexual Macrodynamics? It discusses the mechanic of playful grappling to allow the male to show dominance. In squirrels, it’s probably mostly physical. In wolves, it’s a combo of physical and mental game-playing. With humans, it can be physical, mental, emotional, or social.
As an example of social dominance, a man might cause a woman to freak out by yelling, in a crowded bar, “Five hundred dollars for a blow job?” This causes an emotional spike in the woman and tingles. It might cause the woman to slap the man, but that’s just foreplay. It’s a sure thing that, if you try this, you will have to give comfort very quickly or possibly face an army of White Knights…”no, no, no, I was just messing with you and pranking you, you’re really a great girl”