Recommendation – Strong Buy
Reservations – My world view is different and my game is different, but there is still value to be had in what Roosh teaches.
My Typical Book Recommendation.
My usual recommendation for a book on pick up is The Book of YaReally. The book is kinda hard to find if you don’t know how to google well, but here’s a link to the captured website .
His book is a collection of blog comments organized roughly by category. 950+ pages. He takes one guy from zero to hero – Scray, and explains all sorts of practical details when it comes to approach anxiety, starting, learning, escalation anxiety – and the practical nitty gritty of how do I get from point A to Point B. But that’s also why it’s so long.
Book of YaR basically updates the Mystery Method and PUA for the current era. It isn’t really a book on Game with a Capital G (Being defined by me as focusing on the psychology and behavior of the player and the lady), but more so MM updated to deal with texting, social media, dating sites, and a Red Pill 1.5.
Roosh’s Book is similar. Mystery Method for the most part has been jettisoned, but the practical realities of dating plus Red Pill 2.0.
Where I’m coming from.
I’ve been on RVF since close to the beginning. I remember Roosh from his DC Bachelor days. I don’t remember Roissy the commenter, but I do remember following the site and Virgle Kent’s site back then. My cold approach night game was probably at its peak. I had been devouring game since ~00? And been an active practitioner from 1/1/2001. It was about 6 months after a break up, not that I wanted to be a player in the new millennium.
I read Bang when it dropped (07) and eagerly followed his travels. I’d had 7 years of running game at that point, and slaying was as easy as breathing. I was a solid practitioner.
The first Bang, was basically a no-frills/stripped down Mystery Method. And it came out of a fellow STEM guy like myself, not an artistic guy (it’s called a pick up ARTIST for a reason).
The key message, it might even be a verbatim quote, is that when he changed his behavior – his results changed.
He didn’t suddenly become this muscle bound, billionaire. He thought differently, acted differently, and got different results. Within PUA, there’s this idea, If one man can do it, another man can. Tyler used to say it all the time, I don’t know if they still adhere to that these days.
And then things changed. I believe it was RVF veteran Scorpion that talked about the dating apocalypse.
The Internet + Social Media + Dating Sites + iPhones.
This happened in 2007-2009. I was probably in a relationship at the tail end of the change, so when I got back out – the world was a different place. Girls still basically react to the PUA the same, and everyone still reacts to Game – but the girls were taking themselves out the running.
- Some of it was diet.
- Some of it was life choices in terms of wanting more schooling and more education.
But a lot of it was this new preference for communication.
Along with this change, Roosh changed. The world changed Roosh. Roosh changed with the new world. And Roissy, who like a lot of white guys doing PUA always had a few raised eyebrows, he along with others started this new “era” of PUA that wasn’t PUA at all. It was the manosphere. A convergence of racists, anti-feminists, misogynists, arch-conservatives…. I don’t want to get into it, but this was not my scene at all.
PUA has always had republicans, libertarians, traditionalists, but the average PUA just liked sex. Girls, as a group, could be frustrating. “Girl Power/Feminism” was annoying. But women were not the enemy. Individual women could tear your heart out – but most of us understood that dealing with a woman in all of her glory was part of the price. If she was logical and predictable, like a man, you would not be as interested.
Bang was written before this change in female behavior and the rise of Manosphere – with its offshoots into politics. Classic PUA (all the people that have game careers thanks to Project Hollywood) after being exposed in the Game but then just ridiculed into obscurity with Mystery’s show moved into being Tony Robbins lite. (The latest era is bringing back a lifestyle based game as advertised on Social Media, but that’s another topic)
What would happen if Bang was rewritten for today?
That’s what happened. Knowing what he knows about today, how would you update the book?
10 Chapters with 2 Appendices
- Introduction
- Internal Game
- Pre-Game
- Attraction
- The Roosh Program
- Approaching
- Dating
- Sex
- Relationships
- Conclusion
- Social Circle
- Love Tourism
- Introduction
Introduction – Roosh’s World View
How spoiled are women for sexual options? Very. And all of these offers explain their behavior. And if her behavior is like this now, what sort of long term partner would she make. This line of inquiry – the LTR qualities that a man can detect early on – is a big theme of the book.
For Roosh, Girls are not just spoiled for choices, they are spoiled – mostly everywhere that’s been touched by modernity. Classic PUA 2.0 as best exemplified by YaReally’s Book on Game, has basically dealt with this reality in practice (We don’t love these hoes!) but not really in philosophy. PUA can be sought of as a set of moves, whereas Roosh is offering an entire school of thought.
As he notes, this is the best of times and the worst of times. “Casual Encounters” are super easy. A young woman can swipe a boy over, he takes an uber to her place, they order seamless, watch Netflix, have relations, and he leaves. There has been a lot of handwringing in The Press about “hookup culture” and the emptiness that women have afterwards, but this is the world they chose.
R defines game as “a collection of beliefs, behaviors, strategies, and tactics to make women more attracted to you while increasing your likelihood of experience intimacy”
The word here for me is “likelihood”.
The book will suggest how to improve yourself (building your foundation), a simple timeline from meet to relations, and practical methods to go from point A to B. A lot of care is taken to not write this like the old school chick recipe style book.
Without a doubt, the book is about COLD APPROACH. Night game or day game, the game is the mostly same.
He talks a bit about his 2002 style of game and you can sense the cringe in his writing. As much as we want the game to be an art, a lot of it will always be cringey. When it’s smooth and elegant, it often doesn’t do what we expect it to do. There’s this narrative tendency in explaining game, we want it to be smooth, but the real life is that it’s often not.
He says that provider game used to work in chapter 1, and this is where my understanding of game diverges from his.
Provider “Game” in America
If you’re goal is to dangle a better economic life in front of a chick if she pleases you romantically – Provider Game works and has always works. Provider “game” still works now for chicks that want providers, its always worked.
But who are these girls? I’m sure a lot of you guys know women in your life looking for a “good man” and what good man means is a stable high income job. I know I do. He only needs to be somewhat nice, not a player, and he can have a relationship. But these aren’t girls that I want, and you probably don’t want them either.
The classic tome, Practical Female Psychology as well as anything that delves into women’s sexual strategies.
One guy is for good genes, the other guy is for resources is how it breaks down. Guys have made great side hustles on examining this idea of “Hypergamy” (which I pronounce as high-purr-guh-mee, not High-Per-Game-EEE). A lot of commentators will go as far to say that the Rich Guy is getting transactional sex, but Alpha guy is getting validational sex. Moving on..
Roosh says his job is to teach you how to pull with the least effort possible. Again, this is a divergence in our thinking. I’m really about trying to do the most. I am really about taking some low key interaction and making it into a classic night.
But I think it would be fair to say that the book is a lazy man’s guide to getting laid. He goes through a lot of lengths to protect egos and to focus on easy to remember strategies and going for mini-relationships instead of copious SNL’S and the constantly on the make conception of classic PUA.
Roosh does recall some L’s which are kinda funny, but also not written defensively. I’m not going to give his critics any ammunition, but the book could easily be taken out of context.
One of the things that comes to mind when I read his encounters (when I watch anyone else’s encounters) – that’s not the message I would take away from the feedback. He recalls a 2013 Toronto Encounter, where the chicks were evaluating him on every joke. He got the Game “goofy” in that instance to me. It is a tough thing for me to say that you should be evaluating chicks – but that’s what I see some of his problems are.
There is a practical paradox in being a man with standards and then trying to have girls like you. More later.
There are some more “old man”-isms in the first chapter.
Back in my day, men were men and women were women. Instead of railing on manly chicks, it’s the basic soy-boy characterization of guys playing video games, porn, and “soy products”. Roosh knows his audience.
The rest of the chapter sets up a world where women are gaining power and men are basically XY Hyenas looking to feed of the old and injured of the herd, occasionally catching a choice gazelle. None of us are Lions in his mind anymore.
There is also a lot of the “enjoy the decline”/”social decline is happening”/Decline of Western Society. He says all of this, because his game skills require constant updating.
He paints a very grim picture, which undoubtedly conforms to his world view and a lot of people in the Red Pill community.
Thing is, I’m black. Not inconveniently black, but like I’ve read Garvey, Diop, Rodney, Vessey, Douglas, X, Nkrumah, Newton, etc black.
Roosh gives his background as a late bloomer and his initial motivations. (get laid and get a GF). This LTR orientation carries through the book, a Madonna/Whore complex.
Chapter 2 Internal Game
“Your beliefs determine behavior.”
A very strong statement which he applies to men. A classic PUA would take this unassailable logic and apply it to women. There is not much of that this in the book. He departs from late 90’s teachings.
To up your Internal game aka Inner Game he suggests Affirmations. He has a list of 7 that he likes. One particular one to note is this one.
“A girl primarily evaluates my value based on how I treat her”
Guys think it’s their looks, but Roosh argues that it’s how guys treat girls. Further, she only wants to be with a guy that is of higher value. And what do high value people do to low value people – treat low value people as if they are beneath them.
This is traditional PUA thinking that RSD and Todd V all incorporate. But coming from a BMG perspective, where the dominant society treats you like this constantly – what we know is that this builds resistance. Don’t treat my kindness for weakness is a common thing, but it plays with the notion of being liked by all or having everyone wonder if they like you.
I don’t like this idea of value and I think it gets guys focused on the wrong thing. But it works.
Per Roosh, if you treat her like she’s beneath you, she’ll try to win your approval.
Where we differ – This type of thinking runs into stupid value questions.
If you think like this, don’t you lose your value if you approach the girl and try to start the interaction?
I read a lot of beginner questions because those “question” everything style of questions that are rooted in practical things basically let you think about game at a deeper level.
Anyway, Roosh makes a smart statement.
You decide your own value when you chat up a new girl.
So you can fake high value till you make high value. You can shape her reactions to you, by your conscious actions towards her.
This is some real good game even if it comes from a fucked up place.
There are some other good affirmations in here as well.
Chapter 3 – Pre Game
This is the part where you work on your look, your speech, and actions. There are obviously better sources, but he at least gives you a good list to work on – and you can seek out other sources.
Chapter 4 – Attraction
He goes into types of attraction, what triggers attraction, what destroys it, and how unstable it is.
The types of attraction are explained in very concrete and time oriented ways – Pre-minute, post minute, and reputational.
Pre-minute is the idea that a girl knows if she wants to get with you in the first 5-60 seconds. Post is after she experiences your behavior, and Reputational is what others say about you and have said.
Triggers are the typical looks and personality. And destroyers are the things you think would destroy attraction.
He ends the chapter with 3 types of game
- Clown game – Entertaining her. (everyone is now against this)
- Provider Game – obvious – useful in traditional societies
- Hybrid – obvious
Chapter 5- Roosh Program
This is basically how to learn his style of pickup. This is very similar to his advice in Bang, even down to watching Seinfeld. But it puts muscling up front and center. No Fap and Reading Books also show up. Roosh goes Renaissance on this one.
Chapter 6 – Approaching
It should be called cold approaching, and he goes into lots of detail here. This is the reason to buy the book if you want no frills “how to talk to girls”.
Rejection is no big deal for Roosh. He’s not a converter, he’s a screener. This actually has some legs to it, even though I’m much more of a “closer” – his reasoning for her “rejecting” you is so simple that it should make the next chick EASIER to approach.
He advocates a volume approach/numbers game at first.
What is interesting about the book are the two factors that determine a chick’s options with random cold approaches – Attraction and Availability.
- Attraction – Is she highly attracted to you?
- Availability – Is she available for connection?
Girls don’t actually need to think like this in order for it to be useful framework for a guy. It makes the inevitable wheel spinning more tolerable as you grind through your first 100 approaches to build up reference points.
Roosh teaches the reader to remain detached from the experience,
Which is useful advice for guys that are too attached to the outcome of every encounter. In time, learning to inject attachment can help your game – though it may not initially help your results.
There are some good visualization exercises in this section as well.
Indirect vs Direct
His understanding of indirect game is flawed, and think of it as more of delayed direct.
Proper indirect game is interacting with a chick, pushing her buttons, and she starts to wonder WHY IS THIS COOL GUY NOT HITTING ON ME? You close this chick by putting her in a situation where she’s seeking your validation, and you’re giving her compliance hoops to jump through. You are the one that decides, not her. That’s the whole point of what Style and Mystery were doing. Mystery in particular can tell you a banal story in a compelling way, and that only invites more chat, more energy. At which point, he can withhold that emotional joy/zeal/interest for a price.
I can’t blame Roosh. If you watch his stuff on YouTube he can go from dry and monotone, to funny and animated – but doesn’t seem to have the media training to tap into the compelling part of himself. But he would then be conforming to what society wants…
The way Roosh suggests indirect game is starting some innocent chat and moving to asking her out for a date. So each beat in the conversation goes from general bullshit to asking her out or for a number.
Direct is what it is commonly understood by guys that know nothing about pickup. A comment that is unambiguous about your intent. It’s usually about her.
Night game vs Day Game – His book Day Bang is much explanation of his style. I would not buy this book to learn day game. It does highlight a lot of the differences between the two.
Chapter 7 – Dating
He includes the text issues here, and talks about calling a girl as well.
There aren’t many (any?) killer lines to text when she stops responding here. He does talk about some of the basic text rules that everyone talks about. (text less, text at the right time, reply at the right interval). The basic rule to texting is to not appear to needy, and you appear that way by not over-texting. This of course leads to all sorts of practical issues that you see on any beginner’s forum, because girls don’t initiate. Girls typically don’t have good text skills, they don’t make conversations “man” interesting. They have no problem texting their girlfriends though.
But the section on texting and setting up the date is pretty thorough. If anything, it should convince you to go for the SNL/SDL.
Date design is discussed
- When to time it
- What to do to keep costs down
- Etc
What’s important is that he ramps down expectations on what to text. If you’ve ever read r/Tinder – those guys are doing the most and not getting the results to speak of.
The section on dating is really extensive. If a guy has autism issues and struggles to understand the flow of a date – this coupled with a good autism book would be great.
Qualification
Do you have standards?
There is a mini-section on qualification, which isn’t in the approach section. I think this is in error, especially when Roosh’s criteria for women includes LTR aspects for STR encounters. But bringing out qualifications during the date scenario is brilliant in it’s own right. It is definitely geared for a mini-ltr not a 1st date connection. Some of the back and forth isn’t very playful, and it’s more about hard screening.
Teasing
Teasing gets a section here, and he doesn’t bring up the clichés. This is low key one of the better sections of the book and shows that playful interesting side of Roosh and not so dogmatic and philosophical.
Chapter 8 – Sex
Lots of detail about “how” in this section. Since this is a family blog, I don’t want to get too much into it. This is one of those sections where thoughtful and vanilla advice can be taken out of context and used to smear him. But from kissing to condoms, this goes from A to Z.
Chapter 9 – Relationships
I relate to Roosh on this. I’m too old to out in these streets to be honest. Screening only takes you so far, so Roosh talks about getting the girl on the same page as you, as opposed to you getting on her page. There is a leadership theme throughout the book and it is most evident here. Again a must read section of the book.
Chapter 10 – Conclusion
He has some advice on how to diagnose your game issues and the “good girl”, but another theme in this book, coming from a man tired of the games that women play – he delves into sustainable game.
Rather than living on the game treadmill, new apps, new modalities every 5-6 months – he wants the reader to have sustainable game. Notch count is no longer the goal, but building a skill set and having good experiences with less women is the key.
Appendices – Social Circle and Love Tourism
Social circle is what you would think it is, and I find it an odd inclusion. Love Tourism is a distillation of his practical advice from his bang guides.
My Conclusion
Roosh is in a different place than he was back in 2007. The world has changed. He’s grown weary and wary.
It’s a good book, but you have to know what you’re getting into. My ideas and experience about dating, as well as my politics diverge from Roosh’s, but I still think there is value in his work. Especially if you’re of the Red Pill 2.0 persuasion.
-Archie
